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February 15 2019

eff.org: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet

A dim future for every made-in-the-EU platform, service and online community

Under the final text, any online community, platform or service that has existed for three or more years, or is making €10,000,001/year or more, is responsible for ensuring that no user ever posts anything that infringes copyright, even momentarily. This is impossible, and the closest any service can come to it is spending hundreds of millions of euros to develop automated copyright filters. Those filters will subject all communications of every European to interception and arbitrary censorship if a black-box algorithm decides their text, pictures, sounds or videos are a match for a known copyrighted work. They are a gift to fraudsters and criminals, to say nothing of censors, both government and private.

These filters are unaffordable by all but the largest tech companies, all based in the USA, and the only way Europe's homegrown tech sector can avoid the obligation to deploy them is to stay under ten million euros per year in revenue, and also shut down after three years.

America's Big Tech companies would certainly prefer not to have to install these filters, but the possibility of being able to grow unchecked, without having to contend with European competitors, is a pretty good second prize (which is why some of the biggest US tech companies have secretly lobbied for filters).

Amazingly, the tiny, useless exceptions in Article 13 are too generous for the entertainment industry lobby, and so politicians have given them a gift to ease the pain: under the final text, every online community, service or platform is required to make ‘best efforts’ to license anything their users might conceivably upload, meaning that they have to buy virtually anything any copyright holder offers to sell them, at any price, on pain of being liable for infringement if a user later uploads that work.”

Reposted frommr-absentia mr-absentia

February 04 2019

re: reimplemetation

@sofias I noticed you mentioned me in talk about reimplementation of Soup. Which is current state of this project? I am very interested...

About my Kyselo: now development paused. I use Kyselo for bookmarking and notekeeping stuff. There are some basic multi user features (like following, direct messages), but for example reposting is not working yet.

My long term plan is to rewrite it to support ActivityPub federation, but currently I lack motivation and struggle with some personal issues.

See http://kyselo.svita.cz/severak for example blog on my platform.

Reposted byseverak severak

November 08 2018

Thanks for all your efforts!

What about that offer? Any reactions from easyname?

How much will the monthly costs for servers, support and administration be? What are you calculations?

Would an association member fee cover that?

October 07 2018

The ignore feature here does not compare to a proper blocking feature as one still sees posts of the ignored people reposted to the friends soup
and it can't keep the ignored people away from your account or control their actions concering your posts in another way. I do not see my browsing experience where it potentially could be.  I actually posted and publicly addressed some CP soups in a post I made 1-2 years ago. Sadly I can't find it. I do not know if it was deleted by the downtime incident last year. The content was pretty explicit and easily illegal, 1-2 clicks through the followers of those soups and I quickly recognized a few familar (polish) anime avatar (TM) soup accounts. I wish I had heard of at least a single user being arrested because of posting child porn, trust me. I know of one case solely, the man behind the account here had little children himself and posted loli tendencies, more explicit stuff on other plattforms. He deactivted all of his social media and deleted the content. I don't know what exactly happened, but of course after the incident last year his soup is all here again....
It is in any case not a nice experience, a good feeling or something the like to be part of a small community that is open for stating that certain types people as a collective should be killed and tortured or not be allowed to live in peace,
or that is willing to accept widely illegal stuff just because someone is scared of breaking fReEdOm Of SpEecH. When I read that soup is being sold I thought "oh my as soon as someone sees the trash on /everyone they think, This better be dead, no one's gonna be willing to invest in this". There are obviously some other investment blockers, but for me this is clearly one of them. The public image is getting ruined, because it has the power to become a hostile place (especially for minorities) no sane person wants to enter anymore if that kind of content is rising or unrestrained. A blocking feature will not solve this issue.
Reposted fromRekrut-K Rekrut-K
I don't know about it yet. Some other people will be out of here too if the unmaintained state of soup continues and the new owner(s) will make steps towards "free speech means I can post my child prn and dehumanizing shit whereever I want, community guidelines are for rats".
I live in Berlin, nobody here follows rules, because it became too large and poor to be cared for properly. It is awful like that. Soup isn't too big and will shrink after a remake because lots of old and inactive accounts might vanish.
I have zero interest in being at a place where being antisocial and insulting other users is a protected rule. I see social media plattforms breaking down because of that. I come to soup to rest.

A blocking feature is not implemented for soup. I would be willing to invest for the development of a proper one, including removing comments of strangers on own posts (or even write one myself in case I'll have time). I don't know how much I'll be able to get involved in all of this community thing if it requires leaking personal information, because I fear a threat of the said group of people.
Reposted fromRekrut-K Rekrut-K

What? Free speech isn't a one-way street.

You have every right to block them, why police them?

If your opinion prevails I'm out of this effort.

Reposted frompaket paket
the more comments by the polish childporn nazis I see claiming to have a right to continue posting their bs on the new soup the more 4digit money I'm willing to invest to keep them out

They piss in front of other people's doors and now suddenly fear the consequences of their behaviour
Reposted fromRekrut-K Rekrut-K

October 06 2018

The question of which country this new soup-organisation should belong to is a very important one. A problem is that legal form depend a lot on potential members. And the only Austrian legal form currently documented in the wiki requires 2 Austrian founders.

If you have some ideas for possible polish legal forms, and any ideas as to why polish legislation might be preferable, please add those to the wiki.

The thing is the alternative: Someone else buys it. Someone who might do exactly what you are saying. This isn't a question between being community owned or staying with the current owners. This is a question between being community owned, being owned by a yet completely unknown entity or the site being closed down.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there is little chance any company would want to associate with soup as is.

It doesn't matter what your political views are, what kind of content you post, etc. Getting involved in this now is the best chance you have to ensure you can keep soup the way you like it. (Short of buying it yourself of cause)

Reposted fromnordern nordern


This is a poll about the nature of this group.

I think posts like this and this should be reposted to here, basically everything that passes a certain threshold of concerning the discussion about the future of soup. Mainly because I almost missed them and think this group is the way to go to avoid that. Or do you want this group to have a different focus?

//discuss; or for low effort: repost if you agree and don't repost if you don't


I think a rewrite would have to be incremental, rather than from scratch.

First, I think it's hugely impractical to mirror the whole database. Second there's the problem which @sofias already adressed, to keep the database synchronized while work on the new version is ongoing. Third, but not least, one would need a full specification of soup, a thing which as far as I know currently only exists in the form of the implementation.

To elaborate on the last point, I think Soup is in some regards a very polished product, and there are features, some in corner cases, which some consider crucial for their Soup experience while many never even noticed them. I think we all agree that we want to keep the community intact, and I think in order to achieve that we would need a very exact copy of Soup.

Thus my argument against a reimplementation from scratch.

(cc @kitchen)

Reposted frompaket paket

October 05 2018

IRC channel

for those who haven't noticed: soba started an IRC channel for us: #soupies on freenode.net
Reposted bysoba soba
If plan B is necessary, ‚we‘ could go full ActivityPub and make it decentralized :3
Also, backup your soup: https://github.com/neingeist/soup-backup (Always seems to take multiple tries until it finally can start the backup). Curiously my current backup sits at 4.7GB — one DVD :D

Reposted fromiks iks
If I'm free to throw some ideas of what could have been done better  (for discussion and extension, maybe it would be a base for cleaned up requirements version in the wiki):
* not using Ruby on the backend ;-) * storage and duplicate files will be a thing; maybe S3 or Backblaze would be a good option, though I don't know what exactly current soup does.
* duplicate files detection, this happens on soup a lot. Not sure if we should MD5 uploaded content or maybe do some visual comparison magic (and pick the better quality on top of that?).
* GIFs should always be converted to videos. Save bandwidth, save quality, no scaling. Go gfycat-like! * webp whenever supported!
* Oh, speaking of which, not sure if the downscaling done by soup is needed, sometimes the files with _500 suffix are bigger (byte-wise) than the originals * when things fail, retry/remember. This is done currently for  unfinished posts, but not for reposts. * the way tumblr does reactions (as adding to the original post) sometimes seems appealing...

* an API for the mobile app. Oh yes, and a mobile app.
Reposted byRekrut-Kkelu

October 04 2018

Two others and I could already cover a third of that, so given the number of people interested in this, we can probably reach that mark, or something below with some negotiation.
The thing about moving to something different is that it needs to be seamless to keep the community intact. That means auto-importing years of history preemptively from a source that tends to be down from time to time. That's an extra challenge, especially since it needs to be updated continuously until the final switch happens.
Operational costs of Soup can, by the way, be most likely cut in half with some engineering and using more efficient content delivery. There is, however, the looming threat of EU-prescribed upload filters. Depending on how Soup is organized in the future, they might not be a problem, though, because small organizations and non-profits are exempt from this requirement.
Reposted fromsoba soba

October 03 2018

geez, that's a lot :/ @anabee

well if we don't manage to buy it, plan B would be to build our own and migrate there. it urgently needs a rewrite anyway.

speaking of rewrites, i totally forgot to address @severak (sorry!! :( ) who already started one! this would definitely be a starting point.

i wrote them a mail but they didn't answer yet. so we don't have an offer so far.

soup community wiki

here is the wiki i started for transforming soup into a community-owned service.

i invite you all to comment and edit. would be great if someone knows more about the legal stuff of clubs, coops and incorporation. 

otherwhise i'd like to get the first meeting going asap. currently my idea is to hold the meetings in Palava and plan them via Dudle, but i'm open to suggestions.

oh, and paket has re-purposed this soup group for us, thanks! make sure to join state-of-the.soup.io :D

i am pleased to invite: @yetzt @Rekrut-K @zuckerente @phin @raven @nordern @abl @soba @bvd @Psaiko @straycat @Sirenensang @naich @LogHiMa @iggy @keksmann @cracknigger @Tokei-Ihto @Tullfrog @roko @sefischer @paket @moonwhale @snuggle @Schweinekloeten @sanczo @anabee @telu @sm0k1nggnu and everyone else willing to join our cause! :)

Reposted bysfmsoupeterHypothermiasobanordernsofiasbitstackerfagussdr-zoidbergPsaikoElbenfreundnaichDevabollabollakeksmannRekrut-Klisiazupaneoraiderpotatoerokobauarbeiterbabeiksrandomuseryetztxmascolaragruetzesusannenueckelzideshowbobu-ditmarbearArchimedesHalobeatzkellerabteilTokei-IhtoblkidLanouwonkoMissDeWordewasMitNetzen
is this group ready to be announcced? i am just about to announce our wiki. :) (edit: i just announced it anyway because i'm an unpatient bitch :P )
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